Makes me sad to even read about this, know I had family members in that group too.
Janice Taylor Garner
I had Cherokee family in the Trail of Tears march.
Melinda Foster
I grew up here. Daughter of JW Allday, now passed. I honestly never had an interest in Alabama History. I’m more of an Ancient Gold and mummies gal. You are definitely opening my eyes to what great rich history Alabama has. This was a pleasant surprise to read this morning.I had never heard about the trees. Thank you …. you’ve got my attention. 🙂
Mo Foster
243 Dogwood Ln
Grove Hill, Al 36451
334.830.5833
Donna R Causey
Thank you so much for your comment. It makes the long hours I spend researching and writing articles worthwhile. There is a lot more to Alabama than most people realize. Donna
Marilynne
Loved reading your history of Burnt Corn & the pics you posted of my G-g-grandfather Dr. John Watkins’ house! 🙂 Thank you, Donna, as I had never seen those 2 exact pics! I do want to point out, however, that the picture of the church titled as the Bethany Baptist Church is actually the Burnt Corn Methodist. 😉 The Bethany Baptist, built in 1819, is the one located across the road (the Old Federal Road) from the Methodist Church, built n 1920’s…Thanks again! 🙂
Donna R Causey
Thank you for the correction. The information came from the Library of Congress and sometimes they provide incorrect info.
Donna
Susan Newman
I have discovered the real reason the trees are bent.
Please email me and I will explain its very interesting natural phenomena.
In an article I just read on this website, I saw that a Dr. John Watkins was mentioned. My Grandfather was John Pearl Watkins from Dale County. Until I saw this article I had not seen any mention of Watkins. My Grandmother, Johanna McCarty Watkins was also from Dale County. Her father owned a large amount of land and sold some of it to the Department of Defense for the building of Camp Rucker (now Fort Rucker) according to family reports.
Nancy Beck
This was an especially interesting addition. Thanks for all the work you do. I am always combing every word you write looking for reference to my Blount ancestors. Keep up your wonderful, valuable work! Best regards from Idaho!
I was doing a essay for an English class I am taking at my local college and I stumbled upon this while I was searching up some information about Native Americans. I’ve got to say this is so interesting! I was falling asleep at my computer before i got to this. Thank you so much for the interesting read! I had no idea this even existed. It’s truly amazing! Great job!
terribly sad time in our history that showed our greed. Where our ancestors left another country due to persecution of their religion only to come here and persecute the Native americans right out of their lands.
This is will worth reading an watching the video at the end,besure and watch all of it. Never did know or here any thing about these tree.would like to have a book on this one.
It is terrible it should of never been done the trees are like that because they are telling there stories to people about what happen to them and you are not suppose to cross a Real Indians burial grounds or mess with it cause you will have bad luck all your life I only know this cause I’m A 100% percent Indian I’m half. Cherokee. And half Blackfoot
Wesley wright
Hey Debra this is Wesley wright. I am half Cherokee, my grandmother was full blooded Cherokee and my grandfather was 3/4 Cherokee. I also have an older relative on my grandmother’s side that lives on the reservation in I think Elmore county Alabama or atmore county Alabama on my grandmother’s side . Can you send me more information about Cherokees and how to get in touch with them on the reservation mentioned above please. My email is , [email protected]. Thanks Debra
the Celtic people of a 1000 years ago beleaved that a natural opening like this or even betor a hole in a rock that was natural like this if you looked through the opining at midnight on certain nights of the year you could see the ferry worold
Ga lu lo hi gi ni du da.
Nu da wa gi ni li si.
E lo hi gi ne tse.
Ga li e li ga.
Si gi ni ge’ yu.
O sa li he li ga.
Ni ga dv, a qua tse li, go hu s di -a na da dv ni.
Is your post in Creek ? Can you translate it to English ? My mothers ancestors lived in west Lauderdale county ,Alabama, near the Mississippi state line , they probably was Chickasaw , but may have been Cherokee , the border of these two great peoples splits Lauderdale county Alabama east /west
The problem with these trees is age. While their twisted stature makes them appear to be old, they are likely not old enough to have been alive at the time of any of the removals of members of the Five Civilized Tribes.
theres a lot of hurt in our family .our family on my dads side was strong in cherokee blood . 15000 were force . of there land 4000 cherokees died alone the trail may god bless them all allso native american on my mothers side and so thankfull
Not all Indians was removed for example ones that was married to whites was not removed that is the reason close to half of georgias have Indian blood.
Many dropped out along the way. My ancestors went into the mountains of Tenn. and were never found. It is also a little known fact that some of the Indians were actually rather wealthy but were also made to move. One indian actually sold a slave in Illinois who was adopted by her buyers and lived her life in their home as a family member and inherited an equal child share of the estate.
Mark Taylor
I find many deformed and strangely shaped trees that are to young to be changed by the Indians.
I’m not sure if this is true or not but it makes a good story.
Hombre
ALL threes do this. All it takes is a bud to form on the side of a tree and form a shoot.
Think about it. It takes YEARS to form a tree to grow in this manner. Bonsai trees takes sometimes decades. Why would some indian on a trail moving to the west hang around for years in the same spot?
Makes for a cool story, though. Sort of like Goldilocks and the three bears.
We all learned about the Fort Mims ‘massacre’. A non-fiction book was written in the last 10 years or so that revealed that most of the people who were killed were ‘metis’, Indian and white mixed, and the minority were white. But, the metis had pulled out of traditional Muscogee society to become Anglicized farmers and tradesmen. Creeks travelling home from Pensacola (where the Spanish sold them powder, ammo and other trade goods) to north of (what is now) Montgomery were ambushed by militia from Fort Mims along the old Wolf Trail at Burnt Corn Creek. Fort Mims was a retaliation.
Don’t forget about wounded knee and all the massacre natives who were tryna make way to ft Robinson to turn themselves in to the 7th cavalry.. it was and still is a tragic event that took place even too this day in age.. sadly we are a nation who is still in turmoil with the united states government.. and many other progressers towards our native heritage, and native ways of life.. (Akicita Hunska) Medicine Root, Oglala Lakota..
Actually, if I’m not mistaken the native Americans sued the fed government and won. The Supreme Court sided with them and Jackson gave em the big screw you I’m gonna do it anyway and forced them out.
My grandmother was full Cherokee. Her family was on the Trail of Tears and they broke off and went to the cliffs of Arkansas. My other Grandmama was part Choctaw. I am proud of my heritage. Andrew Jackson has met his Maker and has had to answer for what he did. We will all have to do this one day so, be cautious that history is not repeated.
Jackson was actually an enthusiastic advocate of Indian relocation.
When David Crockett opposed this policy he was effectively run out of Congress by Jackson’s followers.
Such sadness. I am part indian and so is my daughter (cherokee). What these poor souls were forced to endure was needless.My heart breaks for them and their ancestors.
[…] In the 19th century, the site of Fort Payne was the location of Willstown, an important village of the Cherokees who relocated to Tahlequah, Oklahoma during the Cherokee Trail of Tears. […]
They were used like road markers, to mark any turns or important intersections along this trail and many others
Vince Holmes
Thank you so much for an informative and interesting article. I find the following picture very interesting. http://alabamapioneers.com/ap2/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/trail-of-tears3.jpg If you rotate the picture about 70 degrees to the right it is an eye. Many of the other pictures can be interpreted as body parts. When trees are broken or chopped they can take unusual shapes. I have never seen these type of shapes in trees.
These pictures are a sad reminder of what we did to a proud people to take their land.
We have a disgusting murderer on our $20.00 bill. Andrew Jackson is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people in his lifetime and then stole their land to make room for white immigrants. How can this man be honored.
Mary’s kinfolk rode the Trail of Tears. That’s how her mom came to be from Oklahoma. She still owned the black Kettle her great grandmother took on the Trail.
A man named Don Well has been working on a film about these marker trees.It is set to be relesed in Feb.I hope people will get to see it. He filmed all over the southeast.Followed many of the old trails.The part that I am in is here in Alabama on one of the Trail of Trears routes.
Wesley wright
Hey Billy this is Wesley wright. When u find out the name of the movie can you email the name of the movie to me , email is. [email protected] ……. Thanks Billy
Not a single one of the trees in these photos is nearly old enough for the period. Most look to be maybe 50-75 years old at best. Good story, but no evidence here unless somebody marked these trees in recent times to commemorate the trail.
Both the trees from Izard County, Ar are in excess of 30′. The International Association of Aroborist formula for estimating the age of tree species easily suggests these trees are both withing the 180-200 year range. They are grafted. They could NOT have been formed naturally. The US Forest Service explains that in remote areas that have never been cleared or logged in the Arkansas/Missouri/Oklahoma Ozarks…most notable in the “Cross Timbers” area, trees MUCH smaller than the ones in these photographs can be in excess of 400 years old. Do research instead of speculating.
It was my group that rediscovered the grafted trees at the top of this article. We have documented around 30 “trail trees” along known routes of the Benge Detachment in our county alone.
Andrew Jackson hated all Native Americans !!!! He hated them because most tribes sided with the British during the Revolution !!!!
They sided with the British because they promised them their lands back !!!
The British had no intention of that of course but Native Americans didnt know that !!!!!!!
Andrew Jackson presided over the greatest genocides in our country !!!!!
He will never be a hero in my book !!!!!!
This was very interesting. I would like to visit there sometime. My grandmother was a full bloodied Indian. I try to read all I can about that time period. That is why I got into genealogy. You have been a big help to me in that field. Thanks!
Bondage in ok. The five CIVILIZED tribes( chickasaw,Cherokee,seminoles,creek,chocktaw) all from the east own slaves. Freedman and book of dawes. The latter which contain the names of slaves owned by these tribes.
Some tribes even today will not accept the $20.00 bill as currency because of Andrew Jackson’s image on the bill. family legend has it that we are decedents of Jackson. Wounded Knee is also a dark period in American history. Three days after the massacre soldiers posed with the dead to have their picture taken.
As others have pointed out, the trees referenced could not have been alive at the time the removals took place. In addition, I have seen many similar trees in Alabama which are far from the Trail. The event itself stands alone and does not need “supernatural” components added to it.
I kind of think the Indians are getting revenge–or revenue! Flush w/cash & doing wonderful things for the tribe. I am Choctaw- our tribe was the first removed. Durant is in revival!
David Richmond I think trees that were intentionally manipulated never reflect their true age or in other words…don’t look big enough for the age they are.its like crippled person trying to grow straight andtall.those nativeAmericans knew and understood what they were doing .there is a translation of the written words on some of the trees.WHAT A LOSS
Show me an example of grafted bent trees as in the top three photos. And show me TWO grafted bent trees within a few feet. Four trunks…two trees. If you can’t, please attempt to explain them as a natural occurrence. http://exploreizard.blogspot.com/2013/02/trail-tree-along-jumbo.html
have heard stories of way back where some were just left beside the road cherokee to die or be unburied back then during that march on way to oklahoma or whereever.
[…] there was a problem in the new territory of Oklahoma. In the 1820s and 30s, the United States had forcibly relocated the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaaw, Creek, and Native Americans to move to Oklahoma and after their arrival, the government claimed the land would be theirs “for […]
Martha
I think the trees might grow in this manner if young saplings were tied together and left for a long time. We often see trees in our forests deformed because another tree fell across them while they were young. The old tree has rotted away and left the younger, bent tree behind. Near where I live (in Oregon) pioneers planted an oak, a maple and a walnut tree in the same hole and they have wound around each other to look like one tree. Perhaps the trees were in out-of-the-way places when they were first tied, and later found when the area was more settled. I’d love to see them.
I wondered whether anyone has ever excavated under one of them to see whether there is a grave. Not that I think anyone SHOULD do that, but I thought perhaps someone had done so.
[…] the place where Chickasaw Indians were held captive before embarking on a forced journey along the Trail of Tears, the beautiful privately-owned park is also the home of unique glow worms that are only found in […]
O'Bruadair
Hate to bust the bubble of a sweet and romantic sounding little tale but the idea that these “twisted trees” have anything to do with the trail of tears or anything native Americans did deliberately to mark anything, for that matter, is almost certainly a later day created legend (aka modern myth). Our NA predecessors (and in my case some of my ancestors) weren’t stupid. They had axes (flint ones even before my European ancestors showed up) and if they wanted to mark a trail or anything else they would simply blaze a tree.
No, trees like this are naturally occurring (from storm damage) or are inadvertently created by man and probably by a white man (from logging damage). You can find examples anywhere hardwood trees grow and certainly not just on the trail of tears.
This is so interesting. I have done research on the Cherokees but never heard of this. Then my husband says oh there is a tree like that up in the park like that . so I went up there and it is not as pretty as these but I think that is one like that. Before the mayor passed away he told my husband that was made by the Indians, guess he was right.My husband has a Cherokee line, and I worked on that for several years.
[…] has a way of obliterating the past. The Trail of Tears was a tragic event in American history that we seldom talk about today and I believe it is because […]
Monica
I really enjoyed reading about the trees, and their history. This will make my many Alabama nature walks much more interesting. It seems you have a lot of experience researching Alabama history. I was wondering if maybe you might be able to help me solve a mystery. I am looking for the location of the Borden-Wheeler Springs resort. I have a suspicion that it might be on the property that I am closing on, tomorrow. Interested in investigating with me?
I taught Spanish and lived on the reservation in Cherokee,NC in 1995 .I was fortunate to live in the compound of Going Back , the elder who literally walked back from OK . Initially I had to overcome suspicions ,hostility, resistance to learning. from a white,Spanish, teacher I was determined to win them over . I never won all of them, but I had students that were interested,that excelled,and entertained me with there observations. They asked me why I would teach there.
. I told them my Hogan family were with Boone and this is called absolution,atonement,
.the destruction of the social fiber of family, tribe,nation. The Casinos have not rescued the tribes
Alcohol and the degeneration of families continues , results in loss of , motivation and persistance.
The Trail of Tears is commemorated across North Alabama every year; I believe in September with a massive, multi-thousand motorcycle ride to Waterloo, where the Indians were loaded onto flatboats for the continuation of the journey to Oklahoma.
In Tuscumbia, at Spring Park, is a statue given several years ago by the Indian Nation to the town in remembrance of the kindness the citizens of Tuscumbia gave to the starving, sick Indians as they passed through. Very inspiring.
Tim Carter
I hate to bust the bubble about these trees,but looking at the girth of these trees—they so not look to be at least 150 years old. Also, some of the men were talking as if these trees have always been this size to mark the sites. These trees were disfigured when they were very young and small. So they would not be of size to be noticed or to stand out significantly in the forest.
Can you back that up with science or is it just a hunch?
Stephen
Slaves that the native americans owned walked the Trail of Tears with their owners. Some lived and some died. A few of my family members talk of our blood lines in Oklahoma from those that marched and lived to pass on our story.
Clay Stiles
I have used the bending of small saplings along my trail to allow me to find my way back the same way I came. It is easy to get turned around in the deep woods – so bending a sapling in the direction of your travel allows you to retrace your steps without the need of a compass. When you are hunting, you do not care where you are going – just that there is game ahead. So – a compass would be of little use in re-tracing your steps – as those steps could be quite meandering.
Always heard they would tie down a young sapling with rawhide strings causing the tree to grow in a twisted or misshapen manner. A kind of road sign marking their way. Perhaps marking a pathway “home” for future generations.
This is nice romantic little myth made up by modern day people but a myth nonetheless. Trees formed in odd shapes are fairly common just about anywhere there are older deciduous broadleaf trees. They occur when a sapling is bent over by a large tree falling (either from storms or logging) the larger tree dies and rots away while the bent tree continues to grow.
Roger, I’m sure the top three photos of the trees that are GRAFTED through each other occurred naturally. Perhaps you should look again. Can a deadfall or icestorm force two trees to plunge through two other trees only feet apart and bend at 90 degree angles? Those are my photos above. I’ve asked the author to include a link to the page they are featured on but have not been so honored. The author was kind enough to cite sources for info but not for photos. Here’s the link: http://www.exploreizard.blogspot.com
Sure they did.
And were bent into two 90 degree angles, one vertical and the other horizontal and runs perfectly parallel to the ground for 12 feet and this occurred only 10 feet from two more trees that just happened to also be grafted by nature and is perfectly aligned 90 degrees from the other. Yeah. That’s logical.
BTW, there are knobs on the opposite sides of both large trunks exactly in line with the grafted bent trunks. Guess the sapling were forced completely through the trunks of the larger trees, eh?
I’m part Cherokee Indian. I’ve heard these stories, not sure if they’re true or not but if you take a ride on the Natchez Trace there are sites to see and explore.
About thirty years ago my wife’s mother carried me a long way into the woods in West Corona,Al to show me the graves of a Cherokee couple that her uncle hid from authorities . They lived out their lives on the Frost property and buried in the backyard
You people need to realize that 99.9 percent of the Eastern US was logged in the late 1800s and early 1900s so any trees that were alive during the trail of tears would have been cut down! That article is complete rubbish.
I challenge you on that number. Besides, do you think bent trees make good logs? Probably why in my experience, the bent trees I believe could have been manipulated are much larger than others in the area.
Anyone who spends much time in the woods finds deformed trees frequently. On my little 74 acre forest plot there must be 100. Obviously that means the Indians were circling aimlessly in my little patch of woods waiting for Mark Zuckerberg to send them money.
Explain the grafted trees in the top three photos, please.
curtis echols
I have asked to be E-mailed so that I can follow this story.I live in Hot Spring Co. We are defiantly along The Trail of tears.I was a friend of the late great Alonzo Combs,also known as The Great Thunderbird. He took me with him on many scouting missions looking for mounds,and history,and taught me much. I have seen these trees you mention,and will be back to share some locations and photos of them with you later. Most humbly, curtis echols.
Donna R Causey
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Wesley wright
Please keep me informed of more info and pics please . Email is [email protected] …… Thanks , Wesley wright
Mary Beth - Great Great Grandmother Sybie Taylor - North Carolina Cherokee
I’ve been hearing about the trees forever and it seems that many of us are part indian.
Wesley wright
My name is Wesley and I live in weogulfka in Coosa County Alabama. I read on here about the curved trees on the trail on tears . Now as I said above were I live is about 1/2 mile from a creak called the mil creak, and about 10-15 miles east from the Coosa river . Now behind my dad’s house my grandparents hand cow pasture with some woods but there is one curved tree just like the ones in the pictures above but it is about as old as I am . Was wanting to know if it may be a symbol of something like mentioned above ,like pointing to something important or what… Can someone let me know anything . My email is [email protected]. , Thanks
My heart hurts, as I think of the horrors my ancestors endured, for no reason, other than they were Indian, Native America, First Nation’s People.
The darkness of this time, will never go away. There are still today, many unjust conditions that must be attended to.
It would be wonderful, ( if we’re possible) to go too these sights, I feel the trees, as sacred, witness to the unforgivable animalistic treatment of our dear ancestors.
May my prayers reach their spirits, with honor.
We will not forget.
This tree and virtually all like it are too young to have been standing during that time period–yet this urban legend BS keeps perpetuating itself as untold numbers of halfwits accept this mythology as fact in spite of clear physical evidence it could not be truew
You are right! This is a myth made up by modern day white romantics. My Native American anscestors weren’t stupid. When they wanted mark at trail they simply blazed a tree.
Trees like this form
Naturally after storm and logging damage. I’ve even created a few myself by accident!
Roger Brothers I was an arborist for many years myself. It amazes me the fictions non-Indians create to justify their not having a clue in the first place. You should see some of the things they’ll make up about mere rocks while not knowing what Indian stonework even looks like
Just take a look at this fb page’s contents (I love showing this page off to folks who actually know better–hell, I’m still shaking my head in disbelief) https://www.facebook.com/stonespeaker/
I believe trail trees were once created for just that, but 99% are dead and gone. And not too sure a forced march ever allowed much time for horticulture on the move.
One of the trees is on Point Mallard Golf course in Decatur,Al.I don’t think anyone has noticed it.You can see it while walking to get on the trail by the river.
Sorry do the math and look at the sizes of these trees. There is no longer any virgin stands of trees in the east. Paper companies plowed through most of the timberland when they bought land during the depression because they had money to buy acres of land for almost nothing. Sorry I have a hard time believing this assumption.
A good urban myth. Many such trees can be seen in Arkansas, mostly the result of ice storm falls. I have even made a couple accidentally, by running over them with a tractor.
When I was a kid I was always looking for arrowheads and I knew a old man who boxes of them big spear heads clubs all the good stuff..so I ask him how he found so many ..he told me he didn’t look for one at a time he looked for storage sites and that indians were on foot and they didn’t carry arm loads of arrows around they had places they stored them for when they were out ..he told me to look around sharp bends in creeks ..big out of the ordinary rocks..and Indian trail trees ..but I don’t know if the Indians made the trees grow like that or just made their trails to go by them and used them for reference points..but I do know nature will do it
Nothing to see except cool trees created by nature
Harold Banks
As a 69 year old with a Forestry degree who has spent much of his life in the woods I can say emphatically that the trail trees are a myth. I see such trees on every tract of land I explore, some old, some young. Any injury created by another falling tree, wind storms, ice storms, disease, wild animals, fire, insects, kids, livestock, etc. can create one. It doesn’t take an Indian to produce a deformed tree and they are everywhere.
We have several of these strange shaped trees in the woods behind my parents house. I have always felt a connection with them. This now explains why. Maybe one of my ancestors was marking a way back home during the trail of tears.
Roger brothers
Yep, what a crock!
We can’t say for an absolute certainty that no Indian at no time got it in his head to force a tree to grow this way (nobody can prove a negative) but it is up to the those that present this as fact to come up with some sort of hard evidence that it is true.
I have never seen any. I have never even seen any historical reference to the practice that dates before 1900.
William Bartrum, the famous American naturalist, lived among the Southeastern Indians for years in the 1700’s. He estensively chronicled the native flora and the customs of the Natives themselves at the same time. He was a keen observer of both trees and Indians (so keen in fact he even discovered, described and named two new tree species)
Because of his knowledge of the tribes and their languages he was employed by the US government at one point to accompany a party of Creek, Cherokee and American surveyors that were engaged in marking a new treaty boundary between the Creek and Cherokee nations. He commented that in some cases the Indian surveyors were more accurate than the American even though they would not trust the vagaries of the white man’s magnetic compass!
He wrote of the Indians marking trees by blazing them with an an ax and also marking points with piles of stone.
In all his writing NOT ONCE does he mention the Indians bending trees to mark anything nor does he even mention observing such “marker trees”.
Such trees undoubtedly existed then (they always have and anywhere in the world that has deciduous trees that sprout readily, and they continue to form themselves today without the slightest help from humans) Bartrum and his native friend’s simply understood how such trees formed and found them absolutly UNREMARKABLE.
I believe they marked the trail and a lot came back! However, I’m not so sure that trees you see like this today are the same trees. The trees would have to be at least 160 to 170 years old!
People who believe this don’t spend much time in the woods. I can find at least 50 bizarrely shaped trees in my 74 acre patch of woods. There are numerous ways trees can become deformed. Also, native Americans were forcibly removed along established roads and by riverboat, not though trackless woods.
Harold Banks obviously you didn’t read entire article it also states they used trees to mark areas they hunted or certain spots along rivers and creeks to find where they crossed or fished or put canoes in and back out. You are correct about tree sometimes being deformed in the woods just randomly. I don’t know all the locations to these pictures but they could be along the way they were forced to travel
The Spanish Land Grants and all Indian Grants were declared Fraud by Congress and were nullified in 1835 – See American State Papers – Land – Volume 4.
So all Land patents were found to be fraud since the Treaty of Utrecht of 1713 is Controlling.
It controls the Treaty of Definitive Peace of 1783 as well as the Treaty of Paris of 1763.
That is, the land of what was known as Georgia aka the Mississippi Territory aka Carolina aka everything else was declared fraud due to the fact that no land covered by the Treaty of Utrecht can ever be treatied or even lost in war without both England and Spain’s Kings consent and this was of course the basis for the entire European and American continents.
It is still considered binding and is the basis for International Law today.
The United States Congress agreed – see the reference above.
However it was not a new concept in 1835…
It was published as early as 1789 by David Ramsey, the President of the Congress of Carolina.
The BIA and their interests started committing the frauds which resulted in the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934.
Recall the Choctaw were grossly defrauded by the Federal Government and in 1937 their Secretary/Asst Secretary admitted it was presidential policy to defraud the Choctaws of Alabama and other States.
The Treaty of 1830 never provides for Removal until even any funding for Removal until such time as the Choctaw shall Remove.
The Choctaw never removed as is commonly misunderstood.
Not quite.
Some perhaps.
However in Senate Bill of 1913, Congressional Findings reporter that the Choctaw never removes because the US failed to provide funding for said Removal.
We can’t say for an absolute certainty that no Indian at no time got it in his head to force a tree to grow this way (nobody can prove a negative) but it is up to the those that present this as fact to come up with some sort of hard evidence that it is true.
I have never seen any. I have never even seen any historical reference to such a Native American custom or practice that dates before 1900.
William Bartrum, the famous American naturalist, lived among the Southeastern Indians for years in the 1700’s. He extensively chronicled the native flora and the customs of the Natives themselves at the same time. He was a keen observer of both trees and Indians (so keen in fact he even discovered, described and named two new tree species)
Because of his knowledge of the tribes and their languages he was employed by the US government at one point to accompany a party of Creek, Cherokee and American surveyors that were engaged in marking a new treaty boundary between the Creek and Cherokee nations. He commented that in some cases the Indian surveyors were more accurate than the American even though they would not trust the vagaries of the white man’s magnetic compass!
He wrote of the Indians marking trees by blazing them with an an ax and also marking points with piles of stone.
In all his writing NOT ONCE does he mention the Indians bending trees to mark anything nor does he even mention observing such “marker trees”.
Such trees undoubtedly existed then (they always have and have anywhere in the world that has deciduous trees that sprout readily, and they continue to form themselves today without the slightest help from humans)
Bartrum and his native friend’s simply understood how such trees formed and found them absolutly UNREMARKABLE.
Most of the trees that people claim as “Indian trail trees” certianly aren’t old enough to have been formed by Indians practicing some supposed ancient custom.
If you know anything about trees and how they respond and adapt to injury and stress you know that trees form this way naturally from wind and logging damage (I’ve even created a few by accident myself) Trees like this can be commonly found anywhere in the world that has hardwoods that sprout readily including places like Great Britain and Europe where native Americans NEVER SET FOOT until the modern era.
Did some Indian among the millions that existed at sometime in the last 10,000 years and somewhere in North America get it into his head that he needed to spend the time, labor and effort to force a tree to grow in this fashion??
Maybe, who knows? But was it a widespread and common Native American custom that was practiced all over North America as devotees of the myth claim?
Most probably NOT. If it had been you could find some reference in the documentation of native American customs. There where many European observers that lived among Native Americans and chronicled their customs in the 300 years after contact YET YOU WILL FIND NO REFERENCE ABOUT SUCH A CUSTOM IN ALL THEIR WRITINGS.
As a matter of fact you will find no reference to such a custom at all before THE 20TH CENTURY!
In all probability therefore the “Indian trail tree” is nothing but a sweet romantic little folk tale made up by white folks in the 20th century. Native Americans are just as human as white folks and therefore are just as susceptible to believing a probable myth and can be just as gullible too!
These trees would all have to be at least 180 years old which I doubt. There’s no way.
Richard
A local story goes that after a war the Cherokee and Catawba Indians decided on peace. To signify that peace they tied two saplings together. Supposedly, these trees were present many years later and were seen by local inhabitants. I don’t know if it’s true or not but it makes a great story.
The myth of the Trail of Tears trees will never die. As someone who spends a lot of time in the woods every day, I see deformed trees everywhere. No Indian needed.
It would take someone working with young trees for a long time to form them that way. I do not believe that Indians did that to them when they were removed.
You are so right Rita Piper. Plus the army the Indians to march on roads, not through trackless wilderness. I’m in the woods everyday and see deformed trees everywhere. No Indian needed.
Andrew Turberville How about you STFU, Andrew? Does the word “racist” strike a chord with you?! If so, then maybe you’ve got deeper issues going on. You must be racist yourself.
What kind of maple and what kind of oak. Most of our native hardwoods don’t live 200 years. Regardless, size does not tell you much. To get an accurate agenyou must count rings. Anything else is just a guess.
Proximity to a spring or boundary means little also.
William Bartrum, the famous American naturalist, lived among the Southeastern Indians for years in the 1700’s. He extensively chronicled the native flora and the customs of the Natives themselves at the same time. He was a keen observer of both trees and Indians (so keen in fact he even discovered, described and named two new tree species)
Because of his knowledge of the tribes and their languages he was employed by the US government at one point to accompany a party of Creek, Cherokee and American surveyors that were engaged in marking a new treaty boundary between the Creek and Cherokee nations. He commented that in some cases the Indian surveyors were more accurate than the American even though they would not htrust the vagaries of the white man’s magnetic compass!
He wrote of the Indians marking trees by blazing them with an an ax and also marking points with piles of stone.
In all his writing NOT ONCE does he mention the Indians bending trees to mark anything nor does he even mention observing such “marker trees”.
Such trees undoubtedly existed then (they always have and have anywhere in the world that has deciduous trees that sprout readily, and they continue to form themselves today without the slightest help from humans)
Bartrum and his native friend’s simply understood how such trees formed and found them absolutly UNREMARKABLE.
Most of the trees that people claim as “Indian trail trees” certianly aren’t old enough to have been formed by Indians practicing some supposed ancient custom.
If you know anything about trees and how they respond and adapt to injury and stress you know that trees form this way naturally from wind and logging damage (I’ve even created a few by accident myself) Trees like this can be commonly found anywhere in the world that has hardwoods that sprout readily including places like Great Britain and Europe where native Americans NEVER SET FOOT until the modern era.
Did some Indian among the millions that existed at sometime in the last 10,000 years and somewhere in North America get it into his head that he needed to spend the time, labor and effort to force a tree to grow in this fashion??
Maybe, who knows? But was it a widespread and common Native American custom that was practiced all over North America as devotees of the myth claim?
Most probably NOT. If it had been you could find some reference in the documentation of native American customs. There where many European observers that lived among Native Americans and chronicled their customs in the 300 years after contact YET YOU WILL FIND NO REFERENCE ABOUT SUCH A CUSTOM
IN ALL THEIR WRITINGS.
As a matter of fact you will find no reference to such a custom at all before THE 20TH CENTURY!
In all probability therefore the “Indian trail tree” is nothing but a sweet romantic little folk tale made up by white folks in the 20th century. Native Americans are just as human as white folks and therefore are just as susceptible to believing a probable myth and can be just as gullible too!
Wonder if there are any sad reminders of the Trail of Tears in Western Missouri when thousands of settlers were forced out into the wilderness with the clothes on their backs and their farms ablaze? Never hear much about those folks. Wonder why??????
Steve Avis
We have dug up the remains of wagon on our property in Washington Co. Texas . Just south , there is an arrow in old oak ( 250 yrs old) pointing to the best crossing point . One mile further is another arrow pointing toward another creek crossing. Also old wagon wheel indentations in soil . We think it is from old trail from Indianola to New Braunfels,
left by German Settlers .
Just a comment about the age of the trees. I don’t know but think that they are probably not from the the Trail of Tears. With that said there is an oak in Geneva, Al that is way over 200 years old. It was supposed to have been a full grown tree when the Declaration of Independence was written. It is huge!
I have read several stories on this part of our American History. The former gov. of Georgia wrote a book detailing this and had pictures and locations of several of these markers.
As an old man who walks miles in the woods every day and has for many years, I can testify that uniquely shaped trees are everywhere. Old ones and new ones deformed by wind, insects, disease, critters, limbs from falling neighbors, etc. No Indian needed to make them now or 200 years ago. But this romantic myth will not die.
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Makes me sad to even read about this, know I had family members in that group too.
I had Cherokee family in the Trail of Tears march.
I grew up here. Daughter of JW Allday, now passed. I honestly never had an interest in Alabama History. I’m more of an Ancient Gold and mummies gal. You are definitely opening my eyes to what great rich history Alabama has. This was a pleasant surprise to read this morning.I had never heard about the trees. Thank you …. you’ve got my attention. 🙂
Mo Foster
243 Dogwood Ln
Grove Hill, Al 36451
334.830.5833
Thank you so much for your comment. It makes the long hours I spend researching and writing articles worthwhile. There is a lot more to Alabama than most people realize. Donna
Loved reading your history of Burnt Corn & the pics you posted of my G-g-grandfather Dr. John Watkins’ house! 🙂 Thank you, Donna, as I had never seen those 2 exact pics! I do want to point out, however, that the picture of the church titled as the Bethany Baptist Church is actually the Burnt Corn Methodist. 😉 The Bethany Baptist, built in 1819, is the one located across the road (the Old Federal Road) from the Methodist Church, built n 1920’s…Thanks again! 🙂
Thank you for the correction. The information came from the Library of Congress and sometimes they provide incorrect info.
Donna
I have discovered the real reason the trees are bent.
Please email me and I will explain its very interesting natural phenomena.
In an article I just read on this website, I saw that a Dr. John Watkins was mentioned. My Grandfather was John Pearl Watkins from Dale County. Until I saw this article I had not seen any mention of Watkins. My Grandmother, Johanna McCarty Watkins was also from Dale County. Her father owned a large amount of land and sold some of it to the Department of Defense for the building of Camp Rucker (now Fort Rucker) according to family reports.
This was an especially interesting addition. Thanks for all the work you do. I am always combing every word you write looking for reference to my Blount ancestors. Keep up your wonderful, valuable work! Best regards from Idaho!
I was doing a essay for an English class I am taking at my local college and I stumbled upon this while I was searching up some information about Native Americans. I’ve got to say this is so interesting! I was falling asleep at my computer before i got to this. Thank you so much for the interesting read! I had no idea this even existed. It’s truly amazing! Great job!
This is very interesting!
Thank you for sharing our history!
Interesting. I didn’t know anything about such.
I love learning about Alabama history! Thank you!
Sad day in our history.
terribly sad time in our history that showed our greed. Where our ancestors left another country due to persecution of their religion only to come here and persecute the Native americans right out of their lands.
so very true young lady.
I hope we are eventually able to have him removed from the U.S. $20 bill.
Nothing has changed, my dear.
Harrriet Tubman will replace him.
a dark day in US history !
Its was a long walk a lot died along the way very sad!
Diane Brown Harrison
Yes I am very familiar with this as I have Cherokee on my Mama’s side and Creek on my Daddy’s side of the family. Very, very sad.
Tracy Grooms Stephens
Mother Earth watches over us….she won’t let us be forgotten…..
This is will worth reading an watching the video at the end,besure and watch all of it. Never did know or here any thing about these tree.would like to have a book on this one.
Cheryl Bateman, I put this on Aunt Donna’s page.
These are called marker trees.They mark trails and other important things like water or shelter.
Jackson was no better than Hitler or any other genocidal monster.
so very true..and so was Lincoln and Washington.
Our historians are omitted the sins of many ‘heroes’.
🙁
I agree…but it was the mind set of the times. As great as our nation is, we have some things to be ashamed of.
Joe, I don’t understand your post. I am retired military, and proud of it. I am not blind to the sins of my country, but it’s still the best on earth.
Perhaps the trees were empaths to writhing with suffering as the Cherokee.
Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. By Dee Brown. Stirring history.
Ironic? Jackson,Mo. has a sports team called.. the “Jackson Indians.”
Great article. I had done some research about this but never had seen the trees.
It should have never happened.
It is terrible it should of never been done the trees are like that because they are telling there stories to people about what happen to them and you are not suppose to cross a Real Indians burial grounds or mess with it cause you will have bad luck all your life I only know this cause I’m A 100% percent Indian I’m half. Cherokee. And half Blackfoot
Hey Debra this is Wesley wright. I am half Cherokee, my grandmother was full blooded Cherokee and my grandfather was 3/4 Cherokee. I also have an older relative on my grandmother’s side that lives on the reservation in I think Elmore county Alabama or atmore county Alabama on my grandmother’s side . Can you send me more information about Cherokees and how to get in touch with them on the reservation mentioned above please. My email is , [email protected]. Thanks Debra
the Celtic people of a 1000 years ago beleaved that a natural opening like this or even betor a hole in a rock that was natural like this if you looked through the opining at midnight on certain nights of the year you could see the ferry worold
Bent low because they carry the energy of grief, fear, death, and mourning. We are all connected. When one suffers, we all suffer.
A da do li gi
Ga lu lo hi gi ni du da.
Nu da wa gi ni li si.
E lo hi gi ne tse.
Ga li e li ga.
Si gi ni ge’ yu.
O sa li he li ga.
Ni ga dv, a qua tse li, go hu s di -a na da dv ni.
Wado
Is your post in Creek ? Can you translate it to English ? My mothers ancestors lived in west Lauderdale county ,Alabama, near the Mississippi state line , they probably was Chickasaw , but may have been Cherokee , the border of these two great peoples splits Lauderdale county Alabama east /west
They might have grown like that as they were constantly being sat upon by the PEOPLE!~
interesting explanations of the bent trees along the Trail of Tears
if they only left the NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS, alone think how much better the land would be.
The problem with these trees is age. While their twisted stature makes them appear to be old, they are likely not old enough to have been alive at the time of any of the removals of members of the Five Civilized Tribes.
Andrew Jackson, bigot, murderer, POS!
I read somewhere that they bent the trees to mark the way for those coming after them.
so sad and caused by Greed!
Sad time in our history. We sometimes the Indians were here before the white man. I agree with Linda Webb Cleveland.
Andrew Jackson was a lying liar & a wife stealing bigamist. It was genocide & nobody cared. Don’t take $20s to Cherokee, NC. It’s an insult to them.
theres a lot of hurt in our family .our family on my dads side was strong in cherokee blood . 15000 were force . of there land 4000 cherokees died alone the trail may god bless them all allso native american on my mothers side and so thankfull
That is why today I will not carry a $20 on me due to the murderous Andrew Jackson-scumbag of all presidents.
Bill your so right, Jackson was like Hitler, he hated all the ” first nations people”.
Not all Indians was removed for example ones that was married to whites was not removed that is the reason close to half of georgias have Indian blood.
Many dropped out along the way. My ancestors went into the mountains of Tenn. and were never found. It is also a little known fact that some of the Indians were actually rather wealthy but were also made to move. One indian actually sold a slave in Illinois who was adopted by her buyers and lived her life in their home as a family member and inherited an equal child share of the estate.
I find many deformed and strangely shaped trees that are to young to be changed by the Indians.
I’m not sure if this is true or not but it makes a good story.
ALL threes do this. All it takes is a bud to form on the side of a tree and form a shoot.
Think about it. It takes YEARS to form a tree to grow in this manner. Bonsai trees takes sometimes decades. Why would some indian on a trail moving to the west hang around for years in the same spot?
Makes for a cool story, though. Sort of like Goldilocks and the three bears.
Sad..
Very interesting read about the trees. Something I’ve never heard about. However, the mistreatment of Native Americans is not.
We all learned about the Fort Mims ‘massacre’. A non-fiction book was written in the last 10 years or so that revealed that most of the people who were killed were ‘metis’, Indian and white mixed, and the minority were white. But, the metis had pulled out of traditional Muscogee society to become Anglicized farmers and tradesmen. Creeks travelling home from Pensacola (where the Spanish sold them powder, ammo and other trade goods) to north of (what is now) Montgomery were ambushed by militia from Fort Mims along the old Wolf Trail at Burnt Corn Creek. Fort Mims was a retaliation.
Pamela B. Brown remember that tree like this at the brown house up behind the cabin? 🙁
Nez Perce were killed off also. I am related to Cheif Joseph of the Nez Perce Nation. Pure tragity what Andrew Jackson did smh
Don’t forget about wounded knee and all the massacre natives who were tryna make way to ft Robinson to turn themselves in to the 7th cavalry.. it was and still is a tragic event that took place even too this day in age.. sadly we are a nation who is still in turmoil with the united states government.. and many other progressers towards our native heritage, and native ways of life.. (Akicita Hunska) Medicine Root, Oglala Lakota..
i read this a few weeks ago, amazing, sad, and tear jerking
Jackson was just following orders. ORDERS he received from Washington.
Actually, if I’m not mistaken the native Americans sued the fed government and won. The Supreme Court sided with them and Jackson gave em the big screw you I’m gonna do it anyway and forced them out.
My grandmother was full Cherokee. Her family was on the Trail of Tears and they broke off and went to the cliffs of Arkansas. My other Grandmama was part Choctaw. I am proud of my heritage. Andrew Jackson has met his Maker and has had to answer for what he did. We will all have to do this one day so, be cautious that history is not repeated.
Jackson was actually an enthusiastic advocate of Indian relocation.
When David Crockett opposed this policy he was effectively run out of Congress by Jackson’s followers.
seen this on the Smithsonian channel, the federal has been involved in interment camps for a long time and harsh treatment of people of color
Such sadness. I am part indian and so is my daughter (cherokee). What these poor souls were forced to endure was needless.My heart breaks for them and their ancestors.
[…] In the 19th century, the site of Fort Payne was the location of Willstown, an important village of the Cherokees who relocated to Tahlequah, Oklahoma during the Cherokee Trail of Tears. […]
They were used like road markers, to mark any turns or important intersections along this trail and many others
Thank you so much for an informative and interesting article. I find the following picture very interesting. http://alabamapioneers.com/ap2/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/trail-of-tears3.jpg If you rotate the picture about 70 degrees to the right it is an eye. Many of the other pictures can be interpreted as body parts. When trees are broken or chopped they can take unusual shapes. I have never seen these type of shapes in trees.
These pictures are a sad reminder of what we did to a proud people to take their land.
And it continues today as we speak.
We have a disgusting murderer on our $20.00 bill. Andrew Jackson is responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people in his lifetime and then stole their land to make room for white immigrants. How can this man be honored.
Eddie Taylor
They (the u.s) still does this.
Mary’s kinfolk rode the Trail of Tears. That’s how her mom came to be from Oklahoma. She still owned the black Kettle her great grandmother took on the Trail.
Never heard about the trees before.
What’s even worse is that our govt. is STILL screwing the Natives.
Obviously, Joe has no idea what the Natives have gone through the past 300 years.
A man named Don Well has been working on a film about these marker trees.It is set to be relesed in Feb.I hope people will get to see it. He filmed all over the southeast.Followed many of the old trails.The part that I am in is here in Alabama on one of the Trail of Trears routes.
Hey Billy this is Wesley wright. When u find out the name of the movie can you email the name of the movie to me , email is. [email protected] ……. Thanks Billy
Not a single one of the trees in these photos is nearly old enough for the period. Most look to be maybe 50-75 years old at best. Good story, but no evidence here unless somebody marked these trees in recent times to commemorate the trail.
A 30″ diameter White-Oak is much more than 50-75 years old. Where did you learn to age trees?
So where did you learn to do math? Not one of the trees shown here are even close to 30inches in diameter!
There’s no way these trees are 180-years-old or more which is what they would have to be.
Both the trees from Izard County, Ar are in excess of 30′. The International Association of Aroborist formula for estimating the age of tree species easily suggests these trees are both withing the 180-200 year range. They are grafted. They could NOT have been formed naturally. The US Forest Service explains that in remote areas that have never been cleared or logged in the Arkansas/Missouri/Oklahoma Ozarks…most notable in the “Cross Timbers” area, trees MUCH smaller than the ones in these photographs can be in excess of 400 years old. Do research instead of speculating.
It was my group that rediscovered the grafted trees at the top of this article. We have documented around 30 “trail trees” along known routes of the Benge Detachment in our county alone.
Andrew Jackson hated all Native Americans !!!! He hated them because most tribes sided with the British during the Revolution !!!!
They sided with the British because they promised them their lands back !!!
The British had no intention of that of course but Native Americans didnt know that !!!!!!!
Andrew Jackson presided over the greatest genocides in our country !!!!!
He will never be a hero in my book !!!!!!
This is a truly interesting read. We need to know more about those who were here before us.
because of our ancestors cried so much.
I was told as a child my ggg grandmother head in the hill of Lawrence County Ala Her name was Mahal I can go lay
Sheila Sloan
Wow
This was very interesting. I would like to visit there sometime. My grandmother was a full bloodied Indian. I try to read all I can about that time period. That is why I got into genealogy. You have been a big help to me in that field. Thanks!
Very interesting
Interesting.
But as usual their black slaves that suffered the journey beside their masters get
no mention. The only reward they received was continued
Bondage in ok. The five CIVILIZED tribes( chickasaw,Cherokee,seminoles,creek,chocktaw) all from the east own slaves. Freedman and book of dawes. The latter which contain the names of slaves owned by these tribes.
What a horribly unbeliveably sad time To thimk people claiming to be christian could treat fellow himan beings in such an inhumane manner.
And we are told Isis is bad today….
This story rings true for the settlement of the entire Western Hemisphere
These look like Trail Trees. Not uncommon in the SouthEast. They are interesting directionals for many things.
I know many of us have ancestors that were on the wrong side of this shit.
Sad, but trees are very interesting!
Some tribes even today will not accept the $20.00 bill as currency because of Andrew Jackson’s image on the bill. family legend has it that we are decedents of Jackson. Wounded Knee is also a dark period in American history. Three days after the massacre soldiers posed with the dead to have their picture taken.
As others have pointed out, the trees referenced could not have been alive at the time the removals took place. In addition, I have seen many similar trees in Alabama which are far from the Trail. The event itself stands alone and does not need “supernatural” components added to it.
Are you a dendrochronologist? The two large trunks on the grafted trees are each about 30 inches in diameter.
http://exploreizard.blogspot.com/2013/02/trail-tree-along-jumbo.html
I kind of think the Indians are getting revenge–or revenue! Flush w/cash & doing wonderful things for the tribe. I am Choctaw- our tribe was the first removed. Durant is in revival!
Dennis Woodard looks like your tree and it marks a peace treaty …does it have three arms …three tribes marker Coosa, Cherokee, Etowah …. need a pic!
[…] the Poarch Band, who stayed behind in Alabama when the rest of the Muscogee were removed during the Trail of Tears, as being “questionable […]
David Richmond I think trees that were intentionally manipulated never reflect their true age or in other words…don’t look big enough for the age they are.its like crippled person trying to grow straight andtall.those nativeAmericans knew and understood what they were doing .there is a translation of the written words on some of the trees.WHAT A LOSS
This is why I hate the government, not the country, the screwed my people over bad.
My Dad’s ancestors, Tiptons, helped fight my Mother’s Indian ancestors and move them from their land. So many thoughts about this!
Sad, sad, sad
There are many rocks formed like a rose in OK said to be tears shed.
Unthinkable but true, im Cherokee
Yes Bill Bass Sr. im with you, just like the monster Hitler
Christianity has always been about genocide
I’m a God fearing man but it was a lot of Christian people
God forgive them because they knew were not what they were doing
Trail Tree? I think not. This is a act of nature, you can find these in any stand of forest young and old, just my opinion.
Show me an example of grafted bent trees as in the top three photos. And show me TWO grafted bent trees within a few feet. Four trunks…two trees. If you can’t, please attempt to explain them as a natural occurrence.
http://exploreizard.blogspot.com/2013/02/trail-tree-along-jumbo.html
have heard stories of way back where some were just left beside the road cherokee to die or be unburied back then during that march on way to oklahoma or whereever.
[…] there was a problem in the new territory of Oklahoma. In the 1820s and 30s, the United States had forcibly relocated the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaaw, Creek, and Native Americans to move to Oklahoma and after their arrival, the government claimed the land would be theirs “for […]
I think the trees might grow in this manner if young saplings were tied together and left for a long time. We often see trees in our forests deformed because another tree fell across them while they were young. The old tree has rotted away and left the younger, bent tree behind. Near where I live (in Oregon) pioneers planted an oak, a maple and a walnut tree in the same hole and they have wound around each other to look like one tree. Perhaps the trees were in out-of-the-way places when they were first tied, and later found when the area was more settled. I’d love to see them.
I wondered whether anyone has ever excavated under one of them to see whether there is a grave. Not that I think anyone SHOULD do that, but I thought perhaps someone had done so.
[…] the place where Chickasaw Indians were held captive before embarking on a forced journey along the Trail of Tears, the beautiful privately-owned park is also the home of unique glow worms that are only found in […]
Hate to bust the bubble of a sweet and romantic sounding little tale but the idea that these “twisted trees” have anything to do with the trail of tears or anything native Americans did deliberately to mark anything, for that matter, is almost certainly a later day created legend (aka modern myth). Our NA predecessors (and in my case some of my ancestors) weren’t stupid. They had axes (flint ones even before my European ancestors showed up) and if they wanted to mark a trail or anything else they would simply blaze a tree.
No, trees like this are naturally occurring (from storm damage) or are inadvertently created by man and probably by a white man (from logging damage). You can find examples anywhere hardwood trees grow and certainly not just on the trail of tears.
And you know this…how? Again, look at the top three photos and explain them.
This is an awesome site. I was wondering how do you know these are Trail Trees instead of just a bent tree? I might have one in my backyard.
This is so interesting. I have done research on the Cherokees but never heard of this. Then my husband says oh there is a tree like that up in the park like that . so I went up there and it is not as pretty as these but I think that is one like that. Before the mayor passed away he told my husband that was made by the Indians, guess he was right.My husband has a Cherokee line, and I worked on that for several years.
[…] has a way of obliterating the past. The Trail of Tears was a tragic event in American history that we seldom talk about today and I believe it is because […]
I really enjoyed reading about the trees, and their history. This will make my many Alabama nature walks much more interesting. It seems you have a lot of experience researching Alabama history. I was wondering if maybe you might be able to help me solve a mystery. I am looking for the location of the Borden-Wheeler Springs resort. I have a suspicion that it might be on the property that I am closing on, tomorrow. Interested in investigating with me?
I taught Spanish and lived on the reservation in Cherokee,NC in 1995 .I was fortunate to live in the compound of Going Back , the elder who literally walked back from OK . Initially I had to overcome suspicions ,hostility, resistance to learning. from a white,Spanish, teacher I was determined to win them over . I never won all of them, but I had students that were interested,that excelled,and entertained me with there observations. They asked me why I would teach there.
. I told them my Hogan family were with Boone and this is called absolution,atonement,
.the destruction of the social fiber of family, tribe,nation. The Casinos have not rescued the tribes
Alcohol and the degeneration of families continues , results in loss of , motivation and persistance.
The Trail of Tears is commemorated across North Alabama every year; I believe in September with a massive, multi-thousand motorcycle ride to Waterloo, where the Indians were loaded onto flatboats for the continuation of the journey to Oklahoma.
In Tuscumbia, at Spring Park, is a statue given several years ago by the Indian Nation to the town in remembrance of the kindness the citizens of Tuscumbia gave to the starving, sick Indians as they passed through. Very inspiring.
I hate to bust the bubble about these trees,but looking at the girth of these trees—they so not look to be at least 150 years old. Also, some of the men were talking as if these trees have always been this size to mark the sites. These trees were disfigured when they were very young and small. So they would not be of size to be noticed or to stand out significantly in the forest.
Can you back that up with science or is it just a hunch?
Slaves that the native americans owned walked the Trail of Tears with their owners. Some lived and some died. A few of my family members talk of our blood lines in Oklahoma from those that marched and lived to pass on our story.
I have used the bending of small saplings along my trail to allow me to find my way back the same way I came. It is easy to get turned around in the deep woods – so bending a sapling in the direction of your travel allows you to retrace your steps without the need of a compass. When you are hunting, you do not care where you are going – just that there is game ahead. So – a compass would be of little use in re-tracing your steps – as those steps could be quite meandering.
Not sure about the shapes of trees. But it is good to be reminded of this horrible dark time in the history of our nation,
Donna, thought you might enjoy if you haven’t already seen it.
Thanks, Barbara. Yes, I saw this. I think I am subscribing to this via email. Love the articles!
Always heard they would tie down a young sapling with rawhide strings causing the tree to grow in a twisted or misshapen manner. A kind of road sign marking their way. Perhaps marking a pathway “home” for future generations.
Brilliant!
Found a good book with pictures from a local author near blue ridge ga. Called trail trees
Yes, I am part Cherokee, I so enjoy these stories. I wish that the civil war was understood that its history. Both good and bad on all sides.
My Dad’s family was Georgia Cherokee. They spoke of The Trail of Tears as simply “The Journey”.
Makes slavery pale in comparison. It was legal to lynch a native American on sight in Lauderdale County, thanks to Andrew Jackson & General Coffee.
Really! Oh my gosh!
This is nice romantic little myth made up by modern day people but a myth nonetheless. Trees formed in odd shapes are fairly common just about anywhere there are older deciduous broadleaf trees. They occur when a sapling is bent over by a large tree falling (either from storms or logging) the larger tree dies and rots away while the bent tree continues to grow.
Roger, I’m sure the top three photos of the trees that are GRAFTED through each other occurred naturally. Perhaps you should look again. Can a deadfall or icestorm force two trees to plunge through two other trees only feet apart and bend at 90 degree angles? Those are my photos above. I’ve asked the author to include a link to the page they are featured on but have not been so honored. The author was kind enough to cite sources for info but not for photos. Here’s the link: http://www.exploreizard.blogspot.com
The link above is to my blog…this is the link to the post. Sorry ’bout that: http://exploreizard.blogspot.com/2013/02/trail-tree-along-jumbo.html
The one in the pic above formed when the sapling on the left happened to be forced into the trunk of the tree on the right and they grafted together.
Sure they did.
And were bent into two 90 degree angles, one vertical and the other horizontal and runs perfectly parallel to the ground for 12 feet and this occurred only 10 feet from two more trees that just happened to also be grafted by nature and is perfectly aligned 90 degrees from the other. Yeah. That’s logical.
BTW, there are knobs on the opposite sides of both large trunks exactly in line with the grafted bent trunks. Guess the sapling were forced completely through the trunks of the larger trees, eh?
Loved Jerry Ellis’ book about when he walked the Trail of Tears.Couldn’t put it down,read it in about a day,read it more than once.
U really doint want to know-u would not belive it if u were told
Hannah Coppock
John Atwell
The ones responsible for that bad time should have been hung a lot of native American people should not have died on that trail .
I don’t know if it’s true, but I like the story.
I’m part Cherokee Indian. I’ve heard these stories, not sure if they’re true or not but if you take a ride on the Natchez Trace there are sites to see and explore.
Myra Wallace Collins, your so correct. One of the most beautiful rides ever.
About thirty years ago my wife’s mother carried me a long way into the woods in West Corona,Al to show me the graves of a Cherokee couple that her uncle hid from authorities . They lived out their lives on the Frost property and buried in the backyard
You people need to realize that 99.9 percent of the Eastern US was logged in the late 1800s and early 1900s so any trees that were alive during the trail of tears would have been cut down! That article is complete rubbish.
I challenge you on that number. Besides, do you think bent trees make good logs? Probably why in my experience, the bent trees I believe could have been manipulated are much larger than others in the area.
Anyone who spends much time in the woods finds deformed trees frequently. On my little 74 acre forest plot there must be 100. Obviously that means the Indians were circling aimlessly in my little patch of woods waiting for Mark Zuckerberg to send them money.
Explain the grafted trees in the top three photos, please.
I have asked to be E-mailed so that I can follow this story.I live in Hot Spring Co. We are defiantly along The Trail of tears.I was a friend of the late great Alonzo Combs,also known as The Great Thunderbird. He took me with him on many scouting missions looking for mounds,and history,and taught me much. I have seen these trees you mention,and will be back to share some locations and photos of them with you later. Most humbly, curtis echols.
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Please keep me informed of more info and pics please . Email is [email protected] …… Thanks , Wesley wright
I’ve been hearing about the trees forever and it seems that many of us are part indian.
My name is Wesley and I live in weogulfka in Coosa County Alabama. I read on here about the curved trees on the trail on tears . Now as I said above were I live is about 1/2 mile from a creak called the mil creak, and about 10-15 miles east from the Coosa river . Now behind my dad’s house my grandparents hand cow pasture with some woods but there is one curved tree just like the ones in the pictures above but it is about as old as I am . Was wanting to know if it may be a symbol of something like mentioned above ,like pointing to something important or what… Can someone let me know anything . My email is [email protected]. , Thanks
My heart hurts, as I think of the horrors my ancestors endured, for no reason, other than they were Indian, Native America, First Nation’s People.
The darkness of this time, will never go away. There are still today, many unjust conditions that must be attended to.
It would be wonderful, ( if we’re possible) to go too these sights, I feel the trees, as sacred, witness to the unforgivable animalistic treatment of our dear ancestors.
May my prayers reach their spirits, with honor.
We will not forget.
Bill Barter.
Lots of folks question the age of these trees. Any forester can “core” these trees and determine the their age. Should put an end to the question.
Tammy Braden Barg
Wind !
This tree and virtually all like it are too young to have been standing during that time period–yet this urban legend BS keeps perpetuating itself as untold numbers of halfwits accept this mythology as fact in spite of clear physical evidence it could not be truew
You are right! This is a myth made up by modern day white romantics. My Native American anscestors weren’t stupid. When they wanted mark at trail they simply blazed a tree.
Trees like this form
Naturally after storm and logging damage. I’ve even created a few myself by accident!
Roger Brothers I was an arborist for many years myself. It amazes me the fictions non-Indians create to justify their not having a clue in the first place. You should see some of the things they’ll make up about mere rocks while not knowing what Indian stonework even looks like
Just take a look at this fb page’s contents (I love showing this page off to folks who actually know better–hell, I’m still shaking my head in disbelief)
https://www.facebook.com/stonespeaker/
I’ve found knots and bends in trees and that couldn’t have been 40-50 yrs old. Some looked very similar to the pictures above.
I’ve got trees like that on my property. Clear cut 30 years ago.
I believe trail trees were once created for just that, but 99% are dead and gone. And not too sure a forced march ever allowed much time for horticulture on the move.
We have one of the trees in our yard. It has been Authinakaed.
Huh????
One of the trees is on Point Mallard Golf course in Decatur,Al.I don’t think anyone has noticed it.You can see it while walking to get on the trail by the river.
This is a myth, all natural occurrences These trees would have to be a minimum of 200+ years old
Sorry do the math and look at the sizes of these trees. There is no longer any virgin stands of trees in the east. Paper companies plowed through most of the timberland when they bought land during the depression because they had money to buy acres of land for almost nothing. Sorry I have a hard time believing this assumption.
There are some on Mt. Cheaha.
Indians use to tie trees down to mark trails for others to follow.
Myth
A good urban myth. Many such trees can be seen in Arkansas, mostly the result of ice storm falls. I have even made a couple accidentally, by running over them with a tractor.
When I was a kid I was always looking for arrowheads and I knew a old man who boxes of them big spear heads clubs all the good stuff..so I ask him how he found so many ..he told me he didn’t look for one at a time he looked for storage sites and that indians were on foot and they didn’t carry arm loads of arrows around they had places they stored them for when they were out ..he told me to look around sharp bends in creeks ..big out of the ordinary rocks..and Indian trail trees ..but I don’t know if the Indians made the trees grow like that or just made their trails to go by them and used them for reference points..but I do know nature will do it
Interesting and sad.
And false……
And why?
Am I to believe that the pictures shown are 180 year old trees?
James Lawler have you seen this?
Nothing to see except cool trees created by nature
As a 69 year old with a Forestry degree who has spent much of his life in the woods I can say emphatically that the trail trees are a myth. I see such trees on every tract of land I explore, some old, some young. Any injury created by another falling tree, wind storms, ice storms, disease, wild animals, fire, insects, kids, livestock, etc. can create one. It doesn’t take an Indian to produce a deformed tree and they are everywhere.
We have several of these strange shaped trees in the woods behind my parents house. I have always felt a connection with them. This now explains why. Maybe one of my ancestors was marking a way back home during the trail of tears.
Yep, what a crock!
We can’t say for an absolute certainty that no Indian at no time got it in his head to force a tree to grow this way (nobody can prove a negative) but it is up to the those that present this as fact to come up with some sort of hard evidence that it is true.
I have never seen any. I have never even seen any historical reference to the practice that dates before 1900.
William Bartrum, the famous American naturalist, lived among the Southeastern Indians for years in the 1700’s. He estensively chronicled the native flora and the customs of the Natives themselves at the same time. He was a keen observer of both trees and Indians (so keen in fact he even discovered, described and named two new tree species)
Because of his knowledge of the tribes and their languages he was employed by the US government at one point to accompany a party of Creek, Cherokee and American surveyors that were engaged in marking a new treaty boundary between the Creek and Cherokee nations. He commented that in some cases the Indian surveyors were more accurate than the American even though they would not trust the vagaries of the white man’s magnetic compass!
He wrote of the Indians marking trees by blazing them with an an ax and also marking points with piles of stone.
In all his writing NOT ONCE does he mention the Indians bending trees to mark anything nor does he even mention observing such “marker trees”.
Such trees undoubtedly existed then (they always have and anywhere in the world that has deciduous trees that sprout readily, and they continue to form themselves today without the slightest help from humans) Bartrum and his native friend’s simply understood how such trees formed and found them absolutly UNREMARKABLE.
Why did the settlers have tonapples to Congress to come back to Alabama if it was the Indians who removed?
Tonapples?
Gotta love this spelling. – The settlers appealed to Congress to return to their crops. Gay or Gayle.
I believe they marked the trail and a lot came back! However, I’m not so sure that trees you see like this today are the same trees. The trees would have to be at least 160 to 170 years old!
People who believe this don’t spend much time in the woods. I can find at least 50 bizarrely shaped trees in my 74 acre patch of woods. There are numerous ways trees can become deformed. Also, native Americans were forcibly removed along established roads and by riverboat, not though trackless woods.
Harold Banks obviously you didn’t read entire article it also states they used trees to mark areas they hunted or certain spots along rivers and creeks to find where they crossed or fished or put canoes in and back out. You are correct about tree sometimes being deformed in the woods just randomly. I don’t know all the locations to these pictures but they could be along the way they were forced to travel
If those trees are the real deal then they are sure some of the slowest growing trees in the country.
Only a small number of Choctaw removed if any in 1831-1832 – See American State Papers – Land – Volume 4.
In 1851-1852 the Group led by William Fisher whose guardian ad litum or else equivalent from Mobile returned.
He was accused of fraud for coming back with the Choctaw to Alabama.
The Script was declared fraud before Congress.
The Spanish Land Grants and all Indian Grants were declared Fraud by Congress and were nullified in 1835 – See American State Papers – Land – Volume 4.
So all Land patents were found to be fraud since the Treaty of Utrecht of 1713 is Controlling.
It controls the Treaty of Definitive Peace of 1783 as well as the Treaty of Paris of 1763.
That is, the land of what was known as Georgia aka the Mississippi Territory aka Carolina aka everything else was declared fraud due to the fact that no land covered by the Treaty of Utrecht can ever be treatied or even lost in war without both England and Spain’s Kings consent and this was of course the basis for the entire European and American continents.
It is still considered binding and is the basis for International Law today.
The United States Congress agreed – see the reference above.
However it was not a new concept in 1835…
It was published as early as 1789 by David Ramsey, the President of the Congress of Carolina.
This is deep.
Which roads were established in 1830?
Oklahoma didn’t even become a State until 1907.
Choctaw Nation v United States 119 US 1 (1886).
The BIA and their interests started committing the frauds which resulted in the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934.
Recall the Choctaw were grossly defrauded by the Federal Government and in 1937 their Secretary/Asst Secretary admitted it was presidential policy to defraud the Choctaws of Alabama and other States.
The Treaty of 1830 never provides for Removal until even any funding for Removal until such time as the Choctaw shall Remove.
The Choctaw never removed as is commonly misunderstood.
Not quite.
Some perhaps.
However in Senate Bill of 1913, Congressional Findings reporter that the Choctaw never removes because the US failed to provide funding for said Removal.
Oops…
Now you know.
We can’t say for an absolute certainty that no Indian at no time got it in his head to force a tree to grow this way (nobody can prove a negative) but it is up to the those that present this as fact to come up with some sort of hard evidence that it is true.
I have never seen any. I have never even seen any historical reference to such a Native American custom or practice that dates before 1900.
William Bartrum, the famous American naturalist, lived among the Southeastern Indians for years in the 1700’s. He extensively chronicled the native flora and the customs of the Natives themselves at the same time. He was a keen observer of both trees and Indians (so keen in fact he even discovered, described and named two new tree species)
Because of his knowledge of the tribes and their languages he was employed by the US government at one point to accompany a party of Creek, Cherokee and American surveyors that were engaged in marking a new treaty boundary between the Creek and Cherokee nations. He commented that in some cases the Indian surveyors were more accurate than the American even though they would not trust the vagaries of the white man’s magnetic compass!
He wrote of the Indians marking trees by blazing them with an an ax and also marking points with piles of stone.
In all his writing NOT ONCE does he mention the Indians bending trees to mark anything nor does he even mention observing such “marker trees”.
Such trees undoubtedly existed then (they always have and have anywhere in the world that has deciduous trees that sprout readily, and they continue to form themselves today without the slightest help from humans)
Bartrum and his native friend’s simply understood how such trees formed and found them absolutly UNREMARKABLE.
Most of the trees that people claim as “Indian trail trees” certianly aren’t old enough to have been formed by Indians practicing some supposed ancient custom.
If you know anything about trees and how they respond and adapt to injury and stress you know that trees form this way naturally from wind and logging damage (I’ve even created a few by accident myself) Trees like this can be commonly found anywhere in the world that has hardwoods that sprout readily including places like Great Britain and Europe where native Americans NEVER SET FOOT until the modern era.
Did some Indian among the millions that existed at sometime in the last 10,000 years and somewhere in North America get it into his head that he needed to spend the time, labor and effort to force a tree to grow in this fashion??
Maybe, who knows? But was it a widespread and common Native American custom that was practiced all over North America as devotees of the myth claim?
Most probably NOT. If it had been you could find some reference in the documentation of native American customs. There where many European observers that lived among Native Americans and chronicled their customs in the 300 years after contact YET YOU WILL FIND NO REFERENCE ABOUT SUCH A CUSTOM IN ALL THEIR WRITINGS.
As a matter of fact you will find no reference to such a custom at all before THE 20TH CENTURY!
In all probability therefore the “Indian trail tree” is nothing but a sweet romantic little folk tale made up by white folks in the 20th century. Native Americans are just as human as white folks and therefore are just as susceptible to believing a probable myth and can be just as gullible too!
Joel Pounders Jeff Pounders
These trees would all have to be at least 180 years old which I doubt. There’s no way.
A local story goes that after a war the Cherokee and Catawba Indians decided on peace. To signify that peace they tied two saplings together. Supposedly, these trees were present many years later and were seen by local inhabitants. I don’t know if it’s true or not but it makes a great story.
This is a sad chapter in our American History.
This was almost 200 years ago. Do you think that these trees still stand?
Vicky Morrison Yes indeed there are many.
The myth of the Trail of Tears trees will never die. As someone who spends a lot of time in the woods every day, I see deformed trees everywhere. No Indian needed.
Harold Banks Just what I thought.
You are right. I could show you a dozen within walking distance of my house.
So sorry that we treated these people like this. How cruel our people can be.
Agree. Read trail of tears.
It would take someone working with young trees for a long time to form them that way. I do not believe that Indians did that to them when they were removed.
You are so right Rita Piper. Plus the army the Indians to march on roads, not through trackless wilderness. I’m in the woods everyday and see deformed trees everywhere. No Indian needed.
You are most likely right. It is doubful if native Americans ever forced any tree to grow this way, ever.
But saved many lives…Indians and whites
Andrew Jackson was a racist for sure.
Yvita Luckie stfu you troll
Andrew Turberville ??
Yvita Luckie Andrew is just one of those fragile ignorant white dudes that refuses to understand history. Ignore him. He’s not worth it.
Andrew Turberville How about you STFU, Andrew? Does the word “racist” strike a chord with you?! If so, then maybe you’ve got deeper issues going on. You must be racist yourself.
There’s one at my house! They stayed here. SardisCity in Etowah county
Ever had it bored to see how old it is? What species is it? Diameter?
One is a maple over 30 inches. The other an oak over40 inches
The area is surrounded by springs and is at the Cherokee boundary. Many indian artifacts found here
James Clay probably ate at Lions Den.
Kenneth Watts could be!
What kind of maple and what kind of oak. Most of our native hardwoods don’t live 200 years. Regardless, size does not tell you much. To get an accurate agenyou must count rings. Anything else is just a guess.
Proximity to a spring or boundary means little also.
William Bartrum, the famous American naturalist, lived among the Southeastern Indians for years in the 1700’s. He extensively chronicled the native flora and the customs of the Natives themselves at the same time. He was a keen observer of both trees and Indians (so keen in fact he even discovered, described and named two new tree species)
Because of his knowledge of the tribes and their languages he was employed by the US government at one point to accompany a party of Creek, Cherokee and American surveyors that were engaged in marking a new treaty boundary between the Creek and Cherokee nations. He commented that in some cases the Indian surveyors were more accurate than the American even though they would not htrust the vagaries of the white man’s magnetic compass!
He wrote of the Indians marking trees by blazing them with an an ax and also marking points with piles of stone.
In all his writing NOT ONCE does he mention the Indians bending trees to mark anything nor does he even mention observing such “marker trees”.
Such trees undoubtedly existed then (they always have and have anywhere in the world that has deciduous trees that sprout readily, and they continue to form themselves today without the slightest help from humans)
Bartrum and his native friend’s simply understood how such trees formed and found them absolutly UNREMARKABLE.
These are not marker trees get over it
Andrew Turberville Get over what exactly??! Your inability to understand history isn’t a valid argument against it. So how about YOU get over it…?
Jay Rob how about you quit making up history
I understand completely dumbass these trees aren’t old enough to have been around in the right time period you stupid ass
Sad chapter for certian but truth is these trees were most likely not deliberately formed by native Americans or any other human being.
Most of the trees that people claim as “Indian trail trees” certianly aren’t old enough to have been formed by Indians practicing some supposed ancient custom.
If you know anything about trees and how they respond and adapt to injury and stress you know that trees form this way naturally from wind and logging damage (I’ve even created a few by accident myself) Trees like this can be commonly found anywhere in the world that has hardwoods that sprout readily including places like Great Britain and Europe where native Americans NEVER SET FOOT until the modern era.
Did some Indian among the millions that existed at sometime in the last 10,000 years and somewhere in North America get it into his head that he needed to spend the time, labor and effort to force a tree to grow in this fashion??
Maybe, who knows? But was it a widespread and common Native American custom that was practiced all over North America as devotees of the myth claim?
Most probably NOT. If it had been you could find some reference in the documentation of native American customs. There where many European observers that lived among Native Americans and chronicled their customs in the 300 years after contact YET YOU WILL FIND NO REFERENCE ABOUT SUCH A CUSTOM
IN ALL THEIR WRITINGS.
As a matter of fact you will find no reference to such a custom at all before THE 20TH CENTURY!
In all probability therefore the “Indian trail tree” is nothing but a sweet romantic little folk tale made up by white folks in the 20th century. Native Americans are just as human as white folks and therefore are just as susceptible to believing a probable myth and can be just as gullible too!
Roger Brothers oh yes they were
Oh yes they were what?
Melanie Stickler Falconer
It was a contract. The truth is suppressed.
Yes it is!
Thank you Alabama Pioneers this is a great story Thanks for Sharing great read…..
You really think that tree is 200 years old?
Wonder if there are any sad reminders of the Trail of Tears in Western Missouri when thousands of settlers were forced out into the wilderness with the clothes on their backs and their farms ablaze? Never hear much about those folks. Wonder why??????
We have dug up the remains of wagon on our property in Washington Co. Texas . Just south , there is an arrow in old oak ( 250 yrs old) pointing to the best crossing point . One mile further is another arrow pointing toward another creek crossing. Also old wagon wheel indentations in soil . We think it is from old trail from Indianola to New Braunfels,
left by German Settlers .
I don’t believe that tree is 280 years old.
Paul Lovelace your right it’s only 180 ish.
Joey West Thanks, this social distancing has addled me.
Paul Lovelace I don’t know if it’s that old either. I’ve seen some trees that folks call indian market trees. They are huge. But who knows.
This was wrong in every way ,
Tree isn’t 185 years old.
These trees don’t have anything to do with the Trail of Tears.
Not the marker tree myth again. :/
If that’s the case, they came through my place about 30 years ago.
Just a comment about the age of the trees. I don’t know but think that they are probably not from the the Trail of Tears. With that said there is an oak in Geneva, Al that is way over 200 years old. It was supposed to have been a full grown tree when the Declaration of Independence was written. It is huge!
Cindy Bean
There is a oak tree in Etowah county Alabama it’s estimated over 300 years old this tree is huge big tree its Beautiful also
These posts are annoying.
I always get a kick out of reading about these “marker trees.” But it does make for a good story.
It’s about how bad the NATIVES WERE TREATED…THEN AND NOW..IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY..!!!
Bs to the high heavens
Here we go again
My uncle used to tie sapplings over, to make walking sticks. You can tie in all kinds of configurations. It’ll stunt growth .
I love this sight but this is horse poop…that is not 200 years old
Hollis Mckinley
I have read several stories on this part of our American History. The former gov. of Georgia wrote a book detailing this and had pictures and locations of several of these markers.
We have a few in Keowee Key.
The saddest part of American history. We ran the Indians away from their lands and brought in slaves to do the work.
these trees are still visible in the forest to this day
As an old man who walks miles in the woods every day and has for many years, I can testify that uniquely shaped trees are everywhere. Old ones and new ones deformed by wind, insects, disease, critters, limbs from falling neighbors, etc. No Indian needed to make them now or 200 years ago. But this romantic myth will not die.
Harold Banks , yes.
Harold Banks that tree would be lucky to be 50 yrs old.
Here we go with the trees again
Idiots, you tried to asasinate him in 2014 and poisoned but failed, you want him to be treated by your corrupt Doctors?